Comments for WTC Ground Zero PCGS Certified Coins http://www.wtc911coins.com WTC Recovered coins from ground zero at the World Trade Center, September 11, 2001 Fri, 07 Oct 2011 00:51:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 Comment on E-Bay Buyers Be Aware !! by carver22 http://www.wtc911coins.com/570/e-bay-buyers-be-aware/comment-page-1/#comment-428 carver22 Fri, 07 Oct 2011 00:51:59 +0000 http://www.wtc911coins.com/e-bay-buyers-be-aware/#comment-428 I found this post by searching for info on this buyer who recently bid on my eBay auction. I recently had a similar experience with his tactics, it began with his question about the weight of the item; he won the auction but added two stipulations to the PayPal payment page -- one was an incorrect weight in troy ounces, the second was "not plated." The listing was for a sterling silver cigarette case, the listing showed the weight as 3.57 ounces and 101.1 grams. Most listings for this type of item show the weight in grams and standard ounces, not in troy ounces. His Paypal payment to me had the message "3.57 troy ounces" and "not plated." After he sent payment I tried 3 times to have him acknowledge that the case did not weigh 3.57 troy ounces -- and that the listing did not use the words "troy ounces." His e-mail to me was that he never had seen anyone use avoirdupois measurement for silver or gold and that he could not even find a conversion table that uses anything but troy ounces (guess he didn't try google). As he seemed dissatisfied I e-mailed him and advised that I would refund his payment -- he did not respond so I indeed refunded the full amount the same day. That began an incessant barrage of e-mails from him asking me why the auction was cancelled. I advised that his PayPal payment included a stipulation about the weight of the case and that if I accepted his payment I would be agreeing that the weight was 3.5 troy ounces (which it was not) and would leave him reason to return the item. He then began a campaign of telling falsehoods to both myself and eBay, that I had cancelled the auction in order to sell this to someone else at a higher price. He even offerred me more money to sell this to him and I did not accept and told him so. I attempted to cancel this auction thru eBay but he told the same lie again, namely that I was trying to sell the case to someone else for more money. He threatened bad feedback and asked "is it worth more dollars for negative f/b?" -- even though I had no intention of trying to get more money for this item. Eventually he did leave bad feedback, likely all "1's" in my sellers DSR's, again with his same lie "the seller did not ship item because he didn't get price he wanted." I had been selling on eBay for almost 8 years without a problem like this. It seems now that the stipulations on the PayPal payment were his attempt to set up the seller in order to obtain a discount on the item based on his "misunderstanding" of the listing description. There were 4 other bidders for my auction and they apparently understood the weight of the item, being able to divide 101.1 grams by 3.57. It is clear that this person mistakenly assumes that everyone in the world is exactly like he is, and accuses them of having the traits that he has. Thank goodness we are in America and still have the freedom to choose how we live and conduct ourselves; the eBay format does not permit sellers to leave negative feedback -- an eBay customer service rep told me that sellers were required to ship items to buyers even if the buyer has threatened to leave bad feedback. The cigarette case was packed and ready to be shipped until this buyer turned the auction into his own campaign to show that he was "in charge." He should have been happy that I attempted to cancel this auction since the price of silver dropped from $40 to $30 about a week after he bid on this item. Instead, he tried to pay me a second time thru PayPal and I returned his payment without comment. I found this post by searching for info on this buyer who recently bid on my eBay auction. I recently had a similar experience with his tactics, it began with his question about the weight of the item; he won the auction but added two stipulations to the PayPal payment page — one was an incorrect weight in troy ounces, the second was “not plated.” The listing was for a sterling silver cigarette case, the listing showed the weight as 3.57 ounces and 101.1 grams. Most listings for this type of item show the weight in grams and standard ounces, not in troy ounces. His Paypal payment to me had the message “3.57 troy ounces” and “not plated.” After he sent payment I tried 3 times to have him acknowledge that the case did not weigh 3.57 troy ounces — and that the listing did not use the words “troy ounces.” His e-mail to me was that he never had seen anyone use avoirdupois measurement for silver or gold and that he could not even find a conversion table that uses anything but troy ounces (guess he didn’t try google). As he seemed dissatisfied I e-mailed him and advised that I would refund his payment — he did not respond so I indeed refunded the full amount the same day. That began an incessant barrage of e-mails from him asking me why the auction was cancelled. I advised that his PayPal payment included a stipulation about the weight of the case and that if I accepted his payment I would be agreeing that the weight was 3.5 troy ounces (which it was not) and would leave him reason to return the item. He then began a campaign of telling falsehoods to both myself and eBay, that I had cancelled the auction in order to sell this to someone else at a higher price. He even offerred me more money to sell this to him and I did not accept and told him so. I attempted to cancel this auction thru eBay but he told the same lie again, namely that I was trying to sell the case to someone else for more money. He threatened bad feedback and asked “is it worth more dollars for negative f/b?” — even though I had no intention of trying to get more money for this item. Eventually he did leave bad feedback, likely all “1′s” in my sellers DSR’s, again with his same lie “the seller did not ship item because he didn’t get price he wanted.”

I had been selling on eBay for almost 8 years without a problem like this. It seems now that the stipulations on the PayPal payment were his attempt to set up the seller in order to obtain a discount on the item based on his “misunderstanding” of the listing description. There were 4 other bidders for my auction and they apparently understood the weight of the item, being able to divide 101.1 grams by 3.57.

It is clear that this person mistakenly assumes that everyone in the world is exactly like he is, and accuses them of having the traits that he has. Thank goodness we are in America and still have the freedom to choose how we live and conduct ourselves; the eBay format does not permit sellers to leave negative feedback — an eBay customer service rep told me that sellers were required to ship items to buyers even if the buyer has threatened to leave bad feedback. The cigarette case was packed and ready to be shipped until this buyer turned the auction into his own campaign to show that he was “in charge.”

He should have been happy that I attempted to cancel this auction since the price of silver dropped from $40 to $30 about a week after he bid on this item. Instead, he tried to pay me a second time thru PayPal and I returned his payment without comment.

]]> Comment on PCGS Error On Slabs from WTC by Ross http://www.wtc911coins.com/1099/pcgs-error-on-slabs-from-wtc/comment-page-1/#comment-421 Ross Fri, 01 Jul 2011 00:49:45 +0000 http://www.wtc911coins.com/?p=1099#comment-421 One further comment. I see definite evidence that there are 1000 "1 of 1000" PCGS sets, each consisting of a 2001 MS69 $1 Silver Eagle and a 1999 MS69 $5 Gold eagle. There are two separate consecutive 1000 certificate # runs (bulk submissions?) that support this as follows: Qty 500 2001 MS69 $1 Silver Eagles Cert #'s: 71231974-71232473 Qty 500 1999 MS69 $5 Gold Eagles Cert #'s: 71232474-71232973 AND Qty 500 2001 MS69 $1 Silver Eagles Cert #'s: 71239453-71239952 Qty 500 2001 MS69 $1 Gold Eagles Cert #'s: 71239953-71240452 There are also in existence as indicated from the photo above additional "Collectors Universe/Gem Uncirculated" $1 Siver Eagles, marked "1 of 1000" on the flag label. Has anyone found examples of $5 Gold Eagles in CU/GU slabs marked "1 of 1000"? At this point I'm guessing not. I think the "1 of 1000" CU/GU $1 Silver Eagles are an additional "1 of 1000" single coin 'set'. Please post a reply if you have info to shed more light on this. One further comment. I see definite evidence that there are 1000 “1 of 1000″ PCGS sets, each consisting of a 2001 MS69 $1 Silver Eagle and a 1999 MS69 $5 Gold eagle. There are two separate consecutive 1000 certificate # runs (bulk submissions?) that support this as follows:

Qty 500 2001 MS69 $1 Silver Eagles
Cert #’s: 71231974-71232473
Qty 500 1999 MS69 $5 Gold Eagles
Cert #’s: 71232474-71232973

AND

Qty 500 2001 MS69 $1 Silver Eagles
Cert #’s: 71239453-71239952
Qty 500 2001 MS69 $1 Gold Eagles
Cert #’s: 71239953-71240452

There are also in existence as indicated from the photo above additional “Collectors Universe/Gem Uncirculated” $1 Siver Eagles, marked “1 of 1000″ on the flag label. Has anyone found examples of $5 Gold Eagles in CU/GU slabs marked “1 of 1000″? At this point I’m guessing not.

I think the “1 of 1000″ CU/GU $1 Silver Eagles are an additional “1 of 1000″ single coin ‘set’.

Please post a reply if you have info to shed more light on this.

]]> Comment on PCGS Error On Slabs from WTC by Ross http://www.wtc911coins.com/1099/pcgs-error-on-slabs-from-wtc/comment-page-1/#comment-420 Ross Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:42:07 +0000 http://www.wtc911coins.com/?p=1099#comment-420 Well, I'll be the first to admit this gets more baffling by the minute. I found another MS69 Silver eagle from the 1 of 1000 series with a PCGS number outside the previously mentioned 500 coin "cert range" (71239453-71239952). This one is # 71232364, and as it turns out falls within ANOTHER 500 coin range (71231974-71232473)! All of these 1000 coins are 2001 MS69 $1 silver eagles. I have found examples from each range slabbed as 1 of 1000 WTC coins. Dilemma: There appear to be 1000 (discrete cert number) MS69 coins labeled as 1 of 1000, yet there are also Collector's Universe/Gem Uncirculated 2001 Silver Eagles slabbed as 1 of 1000 coins. Conclusion? Could there be TWO separate 1 of 1000 sets?!! (one with PCGS MS69 slabbed coins and one with Collectors Universe/Gem Uncirculated slabbed coins?) :) Well, I’ll be the first to admit this gets more baffling by the minute. I found another MS69 Silver eagle from the 1 of 1000 series with a PCGS number outside the previously mentioned 500 coin “cert range” (71239453-71239952). This one is # 71232364, and as it turns out falls within ANOTHER 500 coin range (71231974-71232473)! All of these 1000 coins are 2001 MS69 $1 silver eagles. I have found examples from each range slabbed as 1 of 1000 WTC coins.

Dilemma: There appear to be 1000 (discrete cert number) MS69 coins labeled as 1 of 1000, yet there are also Collector’s Universe/Gem Uncirculated 2001 Silver Eagles slabbed as 1 of 1000 coins. Conclusion? Could there be TWO separate 1 of 1000 sets?!! (one with PCGS MS69 slabbed coins and one with Collectors Universe/Gem Uncirculated slabbed coins?)

:)

]]> Comment on PCGS Error On Slabs from WTC by Ross http://www.wtc911coins.com/1099/pcgs-error-on-slabs-from-wtc/comment-page-1/#comment-419 Ross Tue, 21 Jun 2011 03:08:29 +0000 http://www.wtc911coins.com/?p=1099#comment-419 Hi Jacob, Was looking over your site and discovered another case where cert verification can give us a more detailed picture about populations. Since you were good enough to show a picture of the BACK of one of the MS69 1 of 1000 silver Eagle coins, I had a seed number to revisit PCGS's cert verification site and "dig". Turns out there are exactly 500 identical $1 Silver eagles (consecutive Cert #'s 71239453 to 71239952) which your coin picture number 71239886 falls within. Since it's identified as a "1 of 1000" coin, I would presume half were slabbed as "Collector's Univers/Gem Uncirculated" and the other half were slabbed as "PCGS with Verification Numbers". Maybe the owner of the coins requested this. Could it be that PCGS charged less for CU/GU slabbing than they did for Number grading? If so, mightened the owner say, just slab half with grading and half without, possibly to save money? I think it's interesting that exactly half got graded as a bulk submission, don't you? Anyone who thinks PCGS doesn't have detailed records of this stuff is crazy, because look at what we can find through the "back door"! Ross Hi Jacob,

Was looking over your site and discovered another case where cert verification can give us a more detailed picture about populations.

Since you were good enough to show a picture of the BACK of one of the MS69 1 of 1000 silver Eagle coins, I had a seed number to revisit PCGS’s cert verification site and “dig”. Turns out there are exactly 500 identical $1 Silver eagles (consecutive Cert #’s 71239453 to 71239952) which your coin picture number 71239886 falls within. Since it’s identified as a “1 of 1000″ coin, I would presume half were slabbed as “Collector’s Univers/Gem Uncirculated” and the other half were slabbed as “PCGS with Verification Numbers”. Maybe the owner of the coins requested this. Could it be that PCGS charged less for CU/GU slabbing than they did for Number grading? If so, mightened the owner say, just slab half with grading and half without, possibly to save money? I think it’s interesting that exactly half got graded as a bulk submission, don’t you?

Anyone who thinks PCGS doesn’t have detailed records of this stuff is crazy, because look at what we can find through the “back door”!

Ross

]]> Comment on WTC Set Platinum 2001 by Ross http://www.wtc911coins.com/37/wtc-recovery-set-platinum/comment-page-1/#comment-418 Ross Sat, 11 Jun 2011 01:27:57 +0000 http://www.wtc911coins.com/wtc-recovery-set-platinum/#comment-418 Okay. Another Follow up. I got a better response from PCGS this time: “The data base does support the recognition of this product…. Only by the special label and if graded WTC recovery on the standard blue insert.” What this means is that unless the coin indicates “WTC RECOVERY” on the label, it will not be supported by the database. I will forward your concerns to management for review." I hope that isn't just boilerplate customer service! My reply was as follows: "From the photo I sent originally you can see that the coin in question is labeled as a WTC Recovery coin. If what you are saying is true, probably all the entries in your database from Cert # 71444323 to 71444619 (and possibly some others) which appear to have been a bulk submission of WTC recovery coins need to be updated to reflect this. I will await further comment from PCGS and very much appreciate the forwarding of my concerns to management." Let's see if this goes any further. Okay. Another Follow up. I got a better response from PCGS this time:

“The data base does support the recognition of this product…. Only by the special label and if graded WTC recovery on the standard blue insert.”

What this means is that unless the coin indicates “WTC RECOVERY” on the label, it will not be supported by the database.

I will forward your concerns to management for review.”

I hope that isn’t just boilerplate customer service! My reply was as follows:

“From the photo I sent originally you can see that the coin in question is labeled as a WTC Recovery coin. If what you are saying is true, probably all the entries in your database from Cert # 71444323 to 71444619 (and possibly some others) which appear to have been a bulk submission of WTC recovery coins need to be updated to reflect this. I will await further comment from PCGS and very much appreciate the forwarding of my concerns to management.”

Let’s see if this goes any further.

]]> Comment on WTC Set Platinum 2001 by Ross http://www.wtc911coins.com/37/wtc-recovery-set-platinum/comment-page-1/#comment-417 Ross Tue, 07 Jun 2011 23:42:29 +0000 http://www.wtc911coins.com/wtc-recovery-set-platinum/#comment-417 Just a follow up... I got a preliminary response to my original question about my coin put to PCGS. Here it is: "Thank you for contacting PCGS customer service. The WTC coins will be recognized in our database if they contain a blue insert label. This particular coin was graded by our bulk department under a special label. It is still recognized as WTC Recovery coin, but will not appear in the database as a WTC coin. Please let me know if I can further assist you." I responded by resending the text above with my research results and other points. Sooo... what the hell is a "blue insert" label vs. a "special label"? They all look the same to me! Let's see if I get a better response! Just a follow up… I got a preliminary response to my original question about my coin put to PCGS. Here it is:

“Thank you for contacting PCGS customer service.

The WTC coins will be recognized in our database if they contain a blue insert label. This particular coin was graded by our bulk department under a special label. It is still recognized as WTC Recovery coin, but will not appear in the database as a WTC coin.

Please let me know if I can further assist you.”

I responded by resending the text above with my research results and other points.

Sooo… what the hell is a “blue insert” label vs. a “special label”? They all look the same to me! Let’s see if I get a better response!

]]> Comment on WTC Set Platinum 2001 by Ross http://www.wtc911coins.com/37/wtc-recovery-set-platinum/comment-page-1/#comment-416 Ross Tue, 07 Jun 2011 20:02:48 +0000 http://www.wtc911coins.com/wtc-recovery-set-platinum/#comment-416 OK, here is the text of the email I sent off to PSGS: "Please consider reading this note as it is a genuine appeal from a concerned and supportive PCGS product collector. I recently purchased a PCGS slabbed WTC Ground Zero recovery coin (1/10 oz platinum St. of Liberty) in the secondary market. I tried looking up the cert# on your website and found the coin properly described in all particulars except without reference to being a WTC recovery coin. I already sent you an email about this particular coin, but having discovered the issue and after doing further research, I believe it deserves a broader discussion. WTC coins sell at a premium above their normal type/grade prices. This is primarily as a result of the faith your customer base has in your integrity, having identified and slabbed these as genuine “witness relic” coins. Like shipwreck coins or similar antique items, much of the value is based on provenance. Whatever qualms you might have had originally regarding the decision to identify and slab these coins, having done so logically obligates you to support that decision with adequate tools for your customer base to easily identify and ascertain all the information necessary to properly value these coins and identify them as genuine. This is your business model for everything else you “slab”. On your website one can look up certifications by number. After some time expended, what I found was the following. 1/10 oz platinum $10 Cert # range: 71444323 to 71444525 All Coins dated 2001 1 coin MS67, 10 coins MS68, 192 coins MS69 Total 203 coins Presumably all slabbed as WTC Ground Zero Recovery None designated as such 1/4 oz platinum $25: Cert # range: 71444526 to 71444619 All coins dated 2001 All coins MS69 Total: 94 coins Presumably all slabbed as WTC Ground Zero Recovery None designated as such You in effect “created the market” for these coins by certifying the chain of custody (and got paid a fee for your services). It therefore seems reasonable that you should also provide complete and accurate information to your customer/collector constituency with all of the definitive facts relating to them you can provide, as you do already with the regular coins you grade and certify as genuine. Specifically properly identifying notations on all WTC cert verifications along with detailed WTC population reports would both assist and protect the marketplace from unscrupulous individuals who exploit the lack of information available with hyped claims of rarity or counterfeit product. Please consider the value in addressing this for your customers." OK, here is the text of the email I sent off to PSGS:

“Please consider reading this note as it is a genuine appeal from a concerned and supportive PCGS product collector.

I recently purchased a PCGS slabbed WTC Ground Zero recovery coin (1/10 oz platinum St. of Liberty) in the secondary market. I tried looking up the cert# on your website and found the coin properly described in all particulars except without reference to being a WTC recovery coin. I already sent you an email about this particular coin, but having discovered the issue and after doing further research, I believe it deserves a broader discussion.

WTC coins sell at a premium above their normal type/grade prices. This is primarily as a result of the faith your customer base has in your integrity, having identified and slabbed these as genuine “witness relic” coins. Like shipwreck coins or similar antique items, much of the value is based on provenance. Whatever qualms you might have had originally regarding the decision to identify and slab these coins, having done so logically obligates you to support that decision with adequate tools for your customer base to easily identify and ascertain all the information necessary to properly value these coins and identify them as genuine. This is your business model for everything else you “slab”.

On your website one can look up certifications by number. After some time expended, what I found was the following.

1/10 oz platinum $10
Cert # range: 71444323 to 71444525
All Coins dated 2001
1 coin MS67, 10 coins MS68, 192 coins MS69
Total 203 coins
Presumably all slabbed as WTC Ground Zero Recovery
None designated as such

1/4 oz platinum $25:
Cert # range: 71444526 to 71444619
All coins dated 2001
All coins MS69
Total: 94 coins
Presumably all slabbed as WTC Ground Zero Recovery
None designated as such

You in effect “created the market” for these coins by certifying the chain of custody (and got paid a fee for your services). It therefore seems reasonable that you should also provide complete and accurate information to your customer/collector constituency with all of the definitive facts relating to them you can provide, as you do already with the regular coins you grade and certify as genuine. Specifically properly identifying notations on all WTC cert verifications along with detailed WTC population reports would both assist and protect the marketplace from unscrupulous individuals who exploit the lack of information available with hyped claims of rarity or counterfeit product.

Please consider the value in addressing this for your customers.”

]]> Comment on WTC Set Platinum 2001 by Ross http://www.wtc911coins.com/37/wtc-recovery-set-platinum/comment-page-1/#comment-415 Ross Tue, 07 Jun 2011 18:21:11 +0000 http://www.wtc911coins.com/wtc-recovery-set-platinum/#comment-415 Thanks for the welcome and kind words Jacob. I will continue to monitor the internet and find support for my argument. I did send an email off to PCGS asking why these cert # lookups don't indicate the coins certified as WTC recovery. It seems to me that if they (PCGS) took the trouble (and money) to slab these coins as WTC Ground Zero recovery, they have an obligation to "the market they helped to create" to provide all the information they can. I'm going to prod them with some emails and see what happens! Ross Thanks for the welcome and kind words Jacob. I will continue to monitor the internet and find support for my argument.

I did send an email off to PCGS asking why these cert # lookups don’t indicate the coins certified as WTC recovery. It seems to me that if they (PCGS) took the trouble (and money) to slab these coins as WTC Ground Zero recovery, they have an obligation to “the market they helped to create” to provide all the information they can. I’m going to prod them with some emails and see what happens!

Ross

]]> Comment on WTC Set Platinum 2001 by jacob http://www.wtc911coins.com/37/wtc-recovery-set-platinum/comment-page-1/#comment-414 jacob Tue, 07 Jun 2011 03:10:29 +0000 http://www.wtc911coins.com/wtc-recovery-set-platinum/#comment-414 I think you are right on with that research. I thank you for doing it. I see lots of people on Ebay saying numbers about the coins not knowing the real numbers. Not that I know the numbers but with the sound research you have done I would say that its closer to being correct and some facts behind it. Thanks for taking the time to share this information with the collectors here. I welcome you and I hope you can drop by with more research in the future Best jacob I think you are right on with that research. I thank you for doing it. I see lots of people on Ebay saying numbers about the coins not knowing the real numbers. Not that I know the numbers but with the sound research you have done I would say that its closer to being correct and some facts behind it.

Thanks for taking the time to share this information with the collectors here. I welcome you and I hope you can drop by with more research in the future

Best

jacob

]]> Comment on WTC Set Platinum 2001 by Ross http://www.wtc911coins.com/37/wtc-recovery-set-platinum/comment-page-1/#comment-413 Ross Tue, 07 Jun 2011 01:13:16 +0000 http://www.wtc911coins.com/wtc-recovery-set-platinum/#comment-413 Hi Jacob. I'm an old time collector but new to WTC recovery collecting. I have to admit I'm most drawn to the Platinum set, since the Statue of Liberty is a New York icon, and combined with all(?)having the 2001 date, these coins seem the most 'connected' to the event. I have the 1/10 and 1/4 oz. MS69's and here is what my research has uncovered concerning numbers. There is a "run" on the PCGS website which my coins fall within. If these coins were all submitted for certification at once (which is logical) the beginning and ending of this run may allow us to derive the totals. After spending 20 minutes looking for beginnings and endings I have the following results: 1/10 oz platinum $10: Cert # range: 71444323 to 71444525 1 coin MS67, 10 coins MS68, 192 coins MS69 Total 203 coins 1/4 oz platinum $25: Cert # range: 71444526 to 71444619 All coins MS69 Total: 94 coins All are free to check my analysis. Since these coins don't show up in any other sets, I'm guessing that is the total that were originally certified of each. Reasonable? I notice a guy on ebay trying to sell a 1/4 oz plat claiming there are only 52! Don't know wher he got that number. Unfortunately the PCGS cert lookup doesn't classify any of these as WTC recovery (which they do for some others coins inexplicably). Nonetheless I have confirmed by my own coins and other platinum 1/10 oz and 1/4 oz WTC coins I have found on the internet with numbers that all I have checked fall into this one numbering scheme. What do you think? Hi Jacob. I’m an old time collector but new to WTC recovery collecting. I have to admit I’m most drawn to the Platinum set, since the Statue of Liberty is a New York icon, and combined with all(?)having the 2001 date, these coins seem the most ‘connected’ to the event.

I have the 1/10 and 1/4 oz. MS69′s and here is what my research has uncovered concerning numbers. There is a “run” on the PCGS website which my coins fall within. If these coins were all submitted for certification at once (which is logical) the beginning and ending of this run may allow us to derive the totals. After spending 20 minutes looking for beginnings and endings I have the following results:

1/10 oz platinum $10:
Cert # range: 71444323 to 71444525
1 coin MS67, 10 coins MS68, 192 coins MS69
Total 203 coins

1/4 oz platinum $25:
Cert # range: 71444526 to 71444619
All coins MS69
Total: 94 coins

All are free to check my analysis. Since these coins don’t show up in any other sets, I’m guessing that is the total that were originally certified of each. Reasonable?

I notice a guy on ebay trying to sell a 1/4 oz plat claiming there are only 52! Don’t know wher he got that number.

Unfortunately the PCGS cert lookup doesn’t classify any of these as WTC recovery (which they do for some others coins inexplicably). Nonetheless I have confirmed by my own coins and other platinum 1/10 oz and 1/4 oz WTC coins I have found on the internet with numbers that all I have checked fall into this one numbering scheme.

What do you think?

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